Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are joining us from in the world today. Welcome to the third live panel of twenty twenty six in the situation room. It’s part of a series we do every month throughout the year. And wherever you’re joining us from in the world or whether you’re joining us on catch up, because you know a lot of you have busy, busy lives and you you consume this content later, then thank you for joining us. The Situation Room is Eco Online’s thought leadership and engagement platform. And the article we published earlier this month on whether psychological safety is the final frontier for Construction four point zero. So modern construction, is psychological safety the final frontier? Now you’ve got a chance today to ask questions of our stellar panel, and I’ll introduce them in just a second. If you’ve got anything you want us tackle or have a look at, please just pop it into the Q and A. We’ll get to as many as we can in the thirty minutes or so that we’ve got. If we run out of time, we’ll answer them afterwards in the situation room forum chat. So it’s a live piece of content there over on that forum. So the focus for the next thirty minutes or so is that opportunity to change how we manage and approach the holistic safety of construction workers on and off sites, and particularly psychological safety. So we’ll touch on that. Now as I said, truly stellar panel, truly global panel with some diverse senior expertise across multiple industries and disciplines. Starting with Trish. Trish Peterson is our corporate HSE coordinator with Black and McDonald. That’s one of ECO online’s key North American customers and an integrated multitrade service provider with over six thousand five hundred employees delivering construction, facilities management, and technical solutions. Now Trish herself is a health, safety, and environment leader with deep experience of leveraging technology and workplace safety culture to drive impactful programs and safety excellence across the construction industry. So thank you to Trish. Paul. Paul and I worked together for many years. Paul is now the MD of Off-site Solutions at Al Jaco UK, a leading provider of premanufactured buildings using modern methods of construction to deliver efficient and sustainable infrastructure at pace. Now Paul is a construction leader with thirty years experience in high profile UK contractors, consultancies and developers. He’s got extensive experience in areas like operational delivery and planning and work winning as well, it brings a lot to the table. And Andrea, Andrea Corney is our VP of Supply Chain and Consultancy with JS Held, a key strategic partner of ECO online, helping organizations across six different continents to mitigate risk. Andrea herself has had global expertise in ethical supply chain management and complex compliance and stakeholder engagement as well. And she’s driving meaningful change across multiple industries, including energy, utilities, and mining. So as you can see, there’s quite a lot to draw on today. Myself, David Pikson, I’m the senior VP of Safety and Sustainability here at ECO online. I’m a former Chief Safety and Sustainability Officer in Construction, and I’ve got some firsthand experience of safety and sustainability in multiple industry sectors. So we’ve got lots to offer for you today. Now focusing in on construction then. The industry has made considerable progress in physical safety over the past few decades, but it remains one of the world’s most hazardous industries, of course. And the focus often rests too much on physical safety risks and perhaps to the detriment of psychosocial pressures. In fact, sadly, US construction workers are up to four times more likely to die by suicide than the national average. And they’re up to six times more likely to die from suicide than from a fall from height, which is normally the leading cause of workplace fatalities. Twenty twenty five study by the Chartered Institute of Building reported that ninety four percent of construction workers have experienced stress in the past year and a quarter had suicidal thoughts. So there’s some significant research out there showing that workers are experiencing anxiety or depression, and they’re also suffering from reduced concentration, fatigue, and maybe even impaired judgment. So there are some clear indications that psychological strain isn’t an off-site well-being issue. It must a frontline safety concern. So let’s go to the panel. So a headline question then. I’ll ask them what indications you’ve seen that organizations are waking up to the silent crisis facing construction, particularly well-being, and and the need for a more holistic And, Paul, could we start with you, please? Yeah. Thanks, David. I mean, for me, I think, what I see is that, organizations are increasingly asking about, individuals. The first question now is how are they rather than what happened. And for me, that’s been that’s been something of a a cultural shift. And I think as well, society, is very much moving in that in that direction. There’s certainly a lot more of a conversation around people’s feelings and a a general caring approach that I see more in society and in business, these days. It’s certainly far more in the in the in the last few years as awareness around this topic develops. I I like that. How are they? That’s such a simple phrase. In in that one phrase, you can capture that straight away, can’t you? That that does away with blame as well. Let’s set aside. How are you? Yeah. I like that. Brilliant. Trish, same question to you, really. So what’s indications you’ve seen that organizations are are waking up to this potentially silent crisis facing construction? Yeah. In our industry, I’ve typically seen a lot of the psychological health be included in risk assessments and being kind of treated as more of an operational risk. Like we know and understand that these can potentially be leading indicators for serious injuries. Know, fatigue, burnout, stress, all of that can play a part in what actually happens and how incidents occur. So as we start to reframe mental health into more of an operational risk approach, we’re starting to see kind of senior leadership gain being brought to more attention of senior leadership. So now we have, you know, concrete evidence of support for budget metrics, board visibility, and anything that we would need to kind of push this issue further and create some more programs for it. Yeah, I like that particularly, the idea that it’s potentially a leading indicator as well, that you can sort of see some of this stuff coming even before it happens, really. That that that makes a lot of sense to me. I like that point. And, Andrea, to to yourself, really, just that that same sort of question, really, the indications you may have seen that the in the organizations are waking up to this potential crisis. Yeah. I I think I would categorize it in three main sections. First one being that data is connecting mental health to incidents and not treating it sort of as a separate HR issue. It it’s being added into how safety performance is being evaluated on job sites. Secondly, I think there’s regulatory and investor pressure. Frameworks are changing to include a lot of psychological risk in as part of enterprise risk. And thirdly, I think labor scarcity is sort of forcing change where if if you don’t have a safe place for people to work, potentially, they’ll go and look to find some place that does. Yeah. And that’s a very powerful point. Yeah. Thank you for that one as well. That was something we saw from some primary research you did last year. I think we saw figures suggesting that up to eighty one percent of people would leave a job if they felt the environment was unsafe as well. So you’re absolutely right. A key retention metric as well. And staying with you, Andrea, if we may, you know, you’re working in some extremely diverse challenging sectors and markets. Could you share one or two practical examples of approaches where you’ve seen this done well? Yeah. Absolutely. My perspective is, you know, people often think about construction as being, you know, building a building somewhere or, you know, maybe road construction. But but I think what people forget sometimes is that whether you’re in mining or in energy or or anywhere where there is a different type of industrial construction. That is how we view that and how how those jobs are sourced is is really changing and is quite interesting. So I’ll give an example in mining where you are looking to construct either an underground mine or an above ground mine. You are working in very hazardous conditions with explosives, working underground, all of these types of things. And also a lot of these where you’re seeing lots of industrial construction, they are heavily subcontracted. You might have a prime contractor who’s hiring small small companies or smaller companies to come in and do some very, very dangerous types of work. So what I’m seeing is things like a lot of emphasis on how contractors are being qualified, how if there is a prime contractor coming in to manage a site, do they have safety programs that include psychological factors in how they’re evaluating their contractors, things like realistic scheduling, making sure to reduce things like reducing impossible deadlines or reduce pressure, increasing oversight to watch out for some of the cognitive issues like being tired, like fatigue, or improper training that’s leading to to increased stress on conditions. And also the third one being, if there’s a opportunity for people to even know who to report on safe conditions to. Right? So things like a mining site, for example, will put large emphasis on training when contractors enter a location to know who is the on-site supervisor, whether that be from the actual mining company themselves, whether it be the prime contractor, or, you know, just some other individual safety individual that might be on-site to manage the the safety conditions of of the area. So I think whether it’s in construction, like straight up construction industry, whether it’s in mining, whether it’s in energy, those are some of the key things that I’ve seen being implemented to to really manage and man manage and monitor the contractor base from all the way from the selection criteria and the qualification all the way through to managing performance and tying some of these things into leadership KPIs, construction contracts, and just sort of day to day operations issues. Brilliant. Thanks, Andrew. And the extension exactly as you say going inside the the boundaries. Yeah. Paul, you Just just to build on what Trish is saying, Lisa, I’m finding it fascinating that the construction industry in America is very similar and, in its parameters to to the UK. You mentioned skill shortage, as as a as a key example. I think the other things that, for me, kind of kind of are more prevalent these days, particularly in the UK following the introduction of the Building Safety Act legislation, is a test around competence. So in terms of competence of people, skills, knowledge, experience, and behaviors is is a key test that actually helps somewhat in making sure that it’s the right people doing the right jobs within the within the realms of their capability. And I think there’s also as well much more of a social acceptance of a test of reasonableness in terms of what is a reasonable timeframe, what is a reasonable budget, what is a reasonable approach to do in a particular role. So, I’m fascinated already, right, in terms of the topic that we’re covering. So hopefully, those are useful build points. Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. Thank you. And, Paul, just staying with you actually, really. Drawing on your experience, you know, why do you think some organizations or many organizations might still treat psychological safety as something of a secondary issue or maybe even not consider it at all? I think it’s I think there’s something about awareness. In particular, it may be that that organization has not been through a particular situation where where where the where where this is even a consideration at this stage, for which there should be no reason, by the way. But but also, I think, in terms of terms of sort of the general approach to contracting or the way in which they go about work may be slightly outdated in terms of the way in which way in which they’ve been engaged or indeed the way in which they they might have been treated as an organization in the past. So so I think there’s something there around the whole industry having a duty as professionals within it to make sure that those sorts of behaviors and Right? So physical safety is visible, immediate, and and regulated. Psychological risk is is still sometimes seen as a soft issue even though it drives, you know, incidence, aptism, and productivity problems and costs, that that’s that is still a problem because the data is still developing. I do think though with AI tools and some of the other things we’ll talk about, I’m sure later on the panel, I think it is moving it out of that soft seen as soft space into something that’s more measurable, which which is helping. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Thanks, Andrea. And then, Trisha, I think the the bill from you as well. Are you seeing this and and why some organizations might not get this? Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree with the panelists’ previous statements. It’s almost like psychological safety feels intangible compared to a physical risk. Construction is typically grounded in things that are physical, things you can see, hazards you can point to, you know, controls for audits, rules that are enforced. They have clear guidelines and actionable items that come out of that. And it’s not often until, like, a mental health issue manifests into something visible or more tangible that it even gets any attention. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s neglect. Think it’s just more of a compatibility gap. You know, many safety systems traditionally were just not designed to manage these types of risks, and it’s going to take a, like, a full industry kind of overhaul to realize and see that these are, in fact, you know, potentially leading indicators for more serious events. Yeah. It’s a really good point. Almost out of sight, out of mind, ironically, in some respects. Yeah. Paul, jumping in with you, I think, in some of your practicing experiences. You mentioned reporting and and, obviously, blame cultures as well. I think this idea that that how can organizations start to move beyond blame cultures, which we often hear about in construction, you know, and and help workers feel safe to raise concerns and and use reporting systems. I think, perhaps as one of the other panelists has said before, for me, there’s something around preparation and planning and familiarity, but also in a market, particularly for my business where where where resource and demand for what we do is is high. But resources resource and its availability is scarce. Very much we are picking who we play with. So so in terms of portfolios of activity, longer term contracting models, repeat business, early supply chain engagement, and values based behavior that aligns with our organization’s values, is is really core for us. So I think, and and that helps us move sort of beyond that blame culture, rather than having one off relationships, which can be fractious, occurring on a on a sort of regular basis. So really, really working with people that you know, trust, believe in, is is really key for me. And then I think there’s something about, also, as we’ve just talked about there, the the the psychological aspect is is unseen. So my eldest daughter has a mental health issue. She hasn’t got a broken leg or red hair or you can’t see her issue. And I think for me, there’s something about, when we create a really tidy site, people generally respect that and create a tidy environment and keep that keep that place tidy. I think for me in terms of helping, workers feel safe, there’s something about creating a tidy environment, an environment in which psychological aspects of our work and our lives can be talked about. I was at a site of a competitor’s recently, and their their their notice boards and scrolling TV screens and all that sort of stuff very much encourage people to speak up, talk about how they were feeling, talk about pressures, how and where how and where they could get help. So I think a tidy site or a tidy environment, which allows people to talk about it, is, is really one of the keys to to to making this shift. Yeah. That that makes a lot of sense. Like you say, that’s a leadership challenge as well, you know, from from the top throughout the culture and then all the way down through to to empowering people to to expect that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. A question coming from the panel actually is for the panel, if you like, really. So just to build on that. So the question is around senior leadership, really. So it’s looking about, you know, how can organizations really or the senior leadership teams of an organization sort of view the opportunities that are offered by this more intelligent safety environment that we live in, perhaps including modern technologies like wearables or even AI inevitably as well? And Trish, wonder if we might start with you there. Yeah. I certainly think that our senior leaders are recognizing the opportunities that some of these modern technologies are providing. I think they truly resonate, not necessarily with the novelty of the wearable devices or the actual technology itself, but they’re understanding that these devices, these technologies are giving us access to better information than we’ve ever had before. Intelligent tools are explicitly positioned as supporting any opportunity. So for things like the communications from the field, notifications that are coming in, the risk assessments that are happening, and even things like monitoring and checklists that we’re getting the information from allows our senior leaders to make smarter and better decisions moving forward. So I think they truly appreciative of the technologies coming in, and I think they are starting to understand what that means for future kind of actions that we’re going to take to make the work life better. And I like your link there to decision making, So the fact that, you know, this is data and information, but it’s also driving different decisions. So that feels like real progress as well. Yeah. Yeah. Andrea, same question to you, if I may. You know, this this opportunity that senior leadership teams have to to view the opportunities of technology and and and an intelligent environment. Sure. So my perspective is is a little slightly different and is that the risk to AI and and wearables is trust. Right? And so where senior leaders can really add a lot of benefit is is help for help workers to understand what it’s for, what the use is, and basically to show that there it’s there for not for surveillance. Because if workers think it’s about survey surveillance, adoption typically fails. So companies that are doing this well are are transparent about the data use. They’re making the insights anonymous, using the tech to support workers, not monitor them. And I think it’s it’s so it isn’t a question of of should this be being done and, you know, are they using this to track me? It’s about getting people to trust in in the reason that they’re doing that. And the reason is so that people go home safely at night. I think the connecting of the why is where senior leaders can really help. Yeah. I love that. That that effectively, what’s in it for me, you know, connecting that why, that that is very powerful, and that’s pure psychosocial sort of work. I I love that. That’s a really good point. Thanks, Andrea. Paul, just lastly to you. Same sort of question, mate. Yeah. Fascinating insight from, from the panelists there. But but I think, at my my example here is a practical one, but it does relate a related back to technology. So so talking to one of my colleagues recently who runs our manufacturing facility, in, in Yorkshire in the UK, he noticed recently a change in a pattern of one of the people that works at the factory, whether that might be a timekeeping issue or just a general lethargy issue. And, he was brave enough to go and speak to that individual and, have a conversation and how are you. And, at that point, that’s when the person kinda opened up in terms of how they were really feeling. So I guess technology, though, could identify some of that sort of, behavior in advance. So it may be that somebody’s timekeeping who is usually impeccable drops off. It may be their productivity changes. So as and when technology becomes more trusted, in that respect, I’m sure that there will be trends and opportunities that we can see in this sort of data that as leaders we should be starting to act upon, and really giving us signals and cues in terms of, where an intervention might be really helpful. Yeah. That’s that’s really powerful. I like that. And particularly particularly when we have so many loan workers these days, you know, and the loan worker numbers are rising, of course. Yeah. And then you need to connect them back to that kind of support mechanism Yeah. Exactly as you say. Yeah. That’s brilliant. Thank you. Some really good answers there as well. So we’ve had some feedback as well that some organizations might see well-being investments really as they can’t see the link with resilience and retention and being a strategic lever for growth. I’m just interested in your thoughts on that. Andrea, if we could start with you, how we link those sort of well-being investments to that growth leverage. Sure. There’s really two reasons why organizations are having a hard time investing in well-being. And the first is short term thinking. Well-being benefits are long term, but the costs are immediate. The second is that lack of clear ROI visibility that often comes from benefits that are long term. Well but you if you get if you do invest, you can actually quantify turnover, absenteeism, incidents tied to fatigue, and insurance costs. Right? And then those business case results the business case becomes quite clear. And so my perspective on that is organizations that treat well-being as risk prevention and performance optimization and not as a just a straight up cost. I I think that that’s where they will will that’s where they will see major benefit. But I do think the biggest problem is that that investing in your people is typically long term, and we need to get it out away from just being a balance sheet activity. Yeah. I love that that that idea of perspective on time, but actually, this is effective on potential contribution as well. It’s a really good way of seeing it. And Paul, just to same sort of question to you, really. What what might stand in the way of seeing these these investments as being levers for growth, resilience, and retention? I I think there’s I think there’s something about, for me, the the the sort of the positive aspect and the way in which to to that I think we should be looking at this is about, choice. We said before that, skilled skilled workers are becoming increasingly scarce. And I think for me, there’s something around recognizing that, as skilled professionals, we have a choice. There are several other jobs, several other organizations that are really key to employ colleagues like me and some of my colleagues that work in my team. Right? So there’s something there about recognizing that, actually retention, this is part of a key retention, element, in terms of employees and and that they have increasing choice in that in that respect. I think also that organizations who see employees and subcontractors and and resource generally as a cost rather than an asset are the ones that are really gonna lose out. They’re the organizations that are gonna fall behind in this regard as we continue to fight for increasingly scarce and high quality resource. So so for me, I guess that that that would be the advice. We need to have that mindset shift that mindset shift that that we’re talking about assets, not costs. Yeah. It’s brilliant. I love that. And I love that you extend that beyond the traditional boundaries as well, you know, into contractors and supply chain because so much of that’s delivered there. And these supply chain companies are absolutely not assets. They’re fundamentally part of the family, if you will. And Trish, perhaps we can just dive back to you actually and say that you’ve made some great strides at Black Madonna in modern thinking with safety and risk management, of course. Could you share one or two examples of how that’s helping to improve the wider business as a whole? Yeah, absolutely. For us, I mean, I have touched on it a few times, I’m going to keep going back to it because I think it’s been absolutely wonderful from our side of things. But strategic risk management has been honestly the biggest benefit to adopting technology. We’re getting, you know, access to more real time data, more concrete evidence, but we’re also giving the workers a voice that might not have typically been there. So hearing from the frontline workers and being able to share their experiences and share their stories, perhaps anonymously, perhaps, you know, directly through the software where they’re fine with that being named, but it allows us to get kind of into the crux of, you know, what is actually going on. So perhaps, you know, there’s an issue with the supervisor, but at least we’re getting some of that backing detail where we can now apply our resources, whether it’s training or new equipment or different controls, we can now apply it more strategically, more smart in terms of, you know, how are we getting this out to the field, who are our target workers. We just have more data that we can work with in order to make the more appropriate decisions on what’s going to lead us in the right direction. But I think certainly the strategic risk management and in combination with, you know, autonomy of workers being able to be heard, being able to share their experiences and having that kind of go to somewhere instead of just an There’s somebody always going to be able to respond to the events that are coming in, to the, you know, site inspections or the hazard assessments. We have, you know, things that can alert us to high risk events. And if we need to have some kind of intervention at that point in time, we do have that opportunity now where we can say, hey, let’s hold the the horses for a moment here. Let’s have a conversation before we dive into something extremely dangerous. Yeah. Perfect. I like that. And that that idea of interventions as well, that the chance to choose, if you like, choose those interventions. Good. Well, I mean, incredibly, that’s pretty much almost all the time we’ve got for us. The quickest half hour of your day, hopefully. But I just want to wrap up with one final question for the panel ists really and ask them each of them really, what they think the future looks like for safety as organizations work to close some of the gaps that we’ve been talking about today. Andrea, could we start with you? Yeah. I think the first thing is that we’re moving towards integration. So and I mean that in a number of different ways. So I I first of all, use the example of one of my favorite phrases that I that I talk about is ethical supply chain. My background is supply chain, and and supply chain has when I was growing up in industry was try to get the best product or service for the least expensive price. Right? Yep. Now we’ve moved to ethical supply chain, which is the integration of sustainability practices into the supply chain. So safety conditions for for the the contractors that are coming in, environmental conditions that and and monitoring those things as you’re doing the design of the project, looking at who those resources are going to be brought in. So it’s it’s integrating a number of different philosophies into into a job performance. Also, that integration also involves technology. So integrating things like wearables, vehicle monitoring for things like eye movement to to track fatigue, things like that, integrating that into EHS systems so that there is that opportunity to to integrate again the data into the decision making. And then also back to that design of work, looking at the integration of human centered design, sustainable design into whatever the project structure is going to look like, down from using a direct employee who’s got all of the training and safety standards that an organization puts forward for their own employees and making sure that is extended to the community, the supply chain, active existing employees, and anyone else who might just be living in the surrounding areas where a project is being built. I think all of that integration of things is is what the future will look like, And I think data is the background that’s supporting all of that and driving those new behaviors. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. That that interconnectedness, I think, is a very strong theme, isn’t it? It’s it’s an ecosystem. Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Andrea. Trish, same sort of question to you, really, what you think the future looks like for organizations tackling these gaps. Yeah, I mean, I certainly think that psychological safety in and of itself is going to start to be recognized. Things that going back to kind of one of my other answers there, things that weren’t always tangible for us, where we weren’t getting the data, we weren’t getting that information, we are now getting that. So whether however that information becomes ingrained into operations, I think we’re going to start to see better decision making and smarter companies. But I also think that we need to pay attention to the other side of that as well, where we need to acknowledge that technology itself can’t compensate for things like poor leadership. So we definitely need to make sure that we are following up with our leaders and making sure that, yeah, you’re getting this information, but this is how we need to effectively respond to that to actually solve the problems that we’re actually having. So I think we’ll see a lot of technology integrations, and thankfully so. It is helpful. But I think from the human side of things, we also need to kind of ramp up and make sure that our leaders and our people leaders in general are able to adequately kind of support the workforce. Brilliant. Thank you. Nice way to round it off. Paul, for yourself, yeah, what the future looks like from you. Look. I’m just really excited. Right? So, the fact that we’re having this conversation today, the fact that we’re sharing this information, across the different countries of the different industries that we represent, I know for sure that, when I entered this industry thirty five years ago, the structures, the the thinking, the governance, the proactiveness around improving health and safety didn’t exist. The performance of every, every year of my career, in terms of health and safety in the industry that I work in has improved across the board, and it’s gonna continue to do so because we’ve got great people working in, in our industry who are passionate about this. As long as we keep talking about it, raising the profile of it, I know that they’re gonna find really smart solutions to make sure that everybody goes home truly feeling as safe and secure as when they arrive at work, if not better. So I’m I’m really excited about it. Yeah. That’s fantastic. It’s a lovely, optimistic positive note to to draw things to a close on as well, so thank you for Well, a huge thank you from me to Trish, to Andrea, to Paul. Some brilliant answers there. It’s been it’s been quite a privilege, obviously, listening to that that perspective from across the world, different sectors, everywhere that the people are touched really by what we say some of these modern challenges. So thank you to the team for spending their time with us today. Thank you to you for joining us again, whether you watched us live today or whether you’re catching up with this. I hope there was something of use for you there. But more importantly, hopefully, something you can take away and act on tomorrow so that the people around you and the people that work for you are a lot safer. And as the panel said, they go home perhaps just cared for and a little safer than they felt at the start. So thank you, and we’ll see you on the next one.
